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	<title>Comments on: A Pressing Debate on Pleo</title>
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	<link>http://www.suicidebots.com/2007/12/06/a-pressing-debate-on-pleo/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 00:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Head Rotor</title>
		<link>http://www.suicidebots.com/2007/12/06/a-pressing-debate-on-pleo/#comment-47452</link>
		<dc:creator>Head Rotor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.suicidebots.com/2007/12/06/a-pressing-debate-on-pleo/#comment-47452</guid>
		<description>Funny that Mike K. had a similar post on a similar subject on the very same day
http://www.orangecone.com/archives/2007/12/roomba_intimacy.html

Frankly, I think Dennett nailed the whole problem with his "intentional stance" business: the human mind is *hard-wired* to treat complicated things as sentient even if they are obviously not, i.e. "this coke machine must hate me..." When things are designed to be cute and cuddly that blurs the line even further.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny that Mike K. had a similar post on a similar subject on the very same day<br />
<a href="http://www.orangecone.com/archives/2007/12/roomba_intimacy.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.orangecone.com/archives/2007/12/roomba_intimacy.html</a></p>
<p>Frankly, I think Dennett nailed the whole problem with his &#8220;intentional stance&#8221; business: the human mind is *hard-wired* to treat complicated things as sentient even if they are obviously not, i.e. &#8220;this coke machine must hate me&#8230;&#8221; When things are designed to be cute and cuddly that blurs the line even further.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://www.suicidebots.com/2007/12/06/a-pressing-debate-on-pleo/#comment-47345</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 21:43:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.suicidebots.com/2007/12/06/a-pressing-debate-on-pleo/#comment-47345</guid>
		<description>Your argument starts with the assumption that there is a difference between acting hurt and being hurt. I suppose if I punch you in the face, you'd prefer me to believe that you are hurt, rather than simply acting hurt, but how would I know the difference?

Moreover, doesn't it say anything about me that I can go around punching people in the face, irrespective of the fact that those people may or may not be able to feel pain? In the same way, what does it say about people who can inflict wanton damage on a "representation" of life (your terms) for their own enjoyment, simply because it doesn't "feel" pain. Your fictional engineers resort to vivisection as their initial response -- and so would biologists when they see rats do something biologically amazing -- that's a statement about the engineers and biologists.

Simply, what is the difference between "feeling" pain and "acting" hurt, and how can you prove to me that you feel it?

Jesse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your argument starts with the assumption that there is a difference between acting hurt and being hurt. I suppose if I punch you in the face, you&#8217;d prefer me to believe that you are hurt, rather than simply acting hurt, but how would I know the difference?</p>
<p>Moreover, doesn&#8217;t it say anything about me that I can go around punching people in the face, irrespective of the fact that those people may or may not be able to feel pain? In the same way, what does it say about people who can inflict wanton damage on a &#8220;representation&#8221; of life (your terms) for their own enjoyment, simply because it doesn&#8217;t &#8220;feel&#8221; pain. Your fictional engineers resort to vivisection as their initial response &#8212; and so would biologists when they see rats do something biologically amazing &#8212; that&#8217;s a statement about the engineers and biologists.</p>
<p>Simply, what is the difference between &#8220;feeling&#8221; pain and &#8220;acting&#8221; hurt, and how can you prove to me that you feel it?</p>
<p>Jesse.</p>
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		<title>By: bf</title>
		<link>http://www.suicidebots.com/2007/12/06/a-pressing-debate-on-pleo/#comment-47195</link>
		<dc:creator>bf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 22:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.suicidebots.com/2007/12/06/a-pressing-debate-on-pleo/#comment-47195</guid>
		<description>Putting aside for the moment the awsomeness that is Mr. Norris, this reminds me of a type of Turing test I believe is called the Chinese Box problem. Actually I guess it's the inverse of the chinese box problem, because instead of proving the equivalency of the contents of the chinese box (ie, whether there is a person inside the box who "understands" chinese and responds, or a person who has no understanding of chinese but manipulates symbols which happen to be chinese and replies with equivalent answers as the chinese speaker), we see an equivalent emotional reaction to an object that may or may not be "sentient". If my puppy doesn't really feel pain, but "acts" like it feels pain, is it cruel to kick it?

Maybe the answer is that one "should" be nice to anything that's on this side of the uncanny valley, but then raises some unfortunate questions about some humans I know...

Anyways, I took a class from Douglas Hofstadter when I was a wee undergraduate, and had to buy "The Minds Eye", a collection of essays edited by him and Daniel Dennett. Good reading for humans and and other sentient beings who ponder such questions as "does my teddy bear really love me?" and "how the heck DO we get around the Godel Incompleteness Theorem?"

Love the blog!

bf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Putting aside for the moment the awsomeness that is Mr. Norris, this reminds me of a type of Turing test I believe is called the Chinese Box problem. Actually I guess it&#8217;s the inverse of the chinese box problem, because instead of proving the equivalency of the contents of the chinese box (ie, whether there is a person inside the box who &#8220;understands&#8221; chinese and responds, or a person who has no understanding of chinese but manipulates symbols which happen to be chinese and replies with equivalent answers as the chinese speaker), we see an equivalent emotional reaction to an object that may or may not be &#8220;sentient&#8221;. If my puppy doesn&#8217;t really feel pain, but &#8220;acts&#8221; like it feels pain, is it cruel to kick it?</p>
<p>Maybe the answer is that one &#8220;should&#8221; be nice to anything that&#8217;s on this side of the uncanny valley, but then raises some unfortunate questions about some humans I know&#8230;</p>
<p>Anyways, I took a class from Douglas Hofstadter when I was a wee undergraduate, and had to buy &#8220;The Minds Eye&#8221;, a collection of essays edited by him and Daniel Dennett. Good reading for humans and and other sentient beings who ponder such questions as &#8220;does my teddy bear really love me?&#8221; and &#8220;how the heck DO we get around the Godel Incompleteness Theorem?&#8221;</p>
<p>Love the blog!</p>
<p>bf</p>
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		<title>By: SB</title>
		<link>http://www.suicidebots.com/2007/12/06/a-pressing-debate-on-pleo/#comment-47176</link>
		<dc:creator>SB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.suicidebots.com/2007/12/06/a-pressing-debate-on-pleo/#comment-47176</guid>
		<description>No Lem, I think the more pressing question is, if Chuck Norris stared too hard at a Pleo abuser, would the abuser have severe internal bleeding or would they just explode?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No Lem, I think the more pressing question is, if Chuck Norris stared too hard at a Pleo abuser, would the abuser have severe internal bleeding or would they just explode?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Books News &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A Pressing Debate on Pleo</title>
		<link>http://www.suicidebots.com/2007/12/06/a-pressing-debate-on-pleo/#comment-47154</link>
		<dc:creator>Books News &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A Pressing Debate on Pleo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 13:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.suicidebots.com/2007/12/06/a-pressing-debate-on-pleo/#comment-47154</guid>
		<description>[...] A Pressing Debate on PleoBy SBAI Evil Mad Scientist expressive robots half baked ideas RoboToys robots spazout teh ky00t therapy uncanny valleyAI, Evil Mad Scientist, expressive robots, half baked ideas, RoboToys, robots, spazout, teh ky00t, therapy, uncanny valley.Suicide Bots - Hot Bot On Bot Action! - http://www.suicidebots.com [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A Pressing Debate on PleoBy SBAI Evil Mad Scientist expressive robots half baked ideas RoboToys robots spazout teh ky00t therapy uncanny valleyAI, Evil Mad Scientist, expressive robots, half baked ideas, RoboToys, robots, spazout, teh ky00t, therapy, uncanny valley.Suicide Bots - Hot Bot On Bot Action! - <a href="http://www.suicidebots.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.suicidebots.com</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lem</title>
		<link>http://www.suicidebots.com/2007/12/06/a-pressing-debate-on-pleo/#comment-47132</link>
		<dc:creator>Lem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 07:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.suicidebots.com/2007/12/06/a-pressing-debate-on-pleo/#comment-47132</guid>
		<description>Yes, yes, yes... that's all true. But, you're missing the point. The real pressing question about Pleo is "Will it blend?"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, yes, yes&#8230; that&#8217;s all true. But, you&#8217;re missing the point. The real pressing question about Pleo is &#8220;Will it blend?&#8221;</p>
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